Author Topic: Intermittent Fasting..  (Read 150 times)

Offline DrManhattan

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Intermittent Fasting..
« on: October 18, 2019, 10:34:38 AM »
Anyone dabble in the 16/8 fasting method?
If so...good results....bad results..?
The 'interweb' is full of pros and cons..
So wanted to hear it from the horse's mouth, especially if that horse is a gym horse.

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2019, 11:17:59 AM »
ID has had luck with it, but he's not of this earth.

When I do it, I don't heal, my metabolism slows and I feel lousy all the time.
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Offline DrManhattan

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2019, 11:21:54 AM »
Lmao... ID  indeed is an extra terrestrial...

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2019, 12:56:46 PM »
I am far from an ET, but I have always been a little strange for sure :D

As far as IF, I was always the guy who had to eat every 2-3 hours or I would get 'hangry'.   I looked at people that did IF and thought they were crazy, and I said....not for me.

But I have been doing almost a year now, and it is the best thing I have ever done.   The rules of nutrition still apply (cals in cals out) but for me it has done an awesome job at appetite control.   I know how to portion, I just would fail at getting really lean, because I wanted to eat more than I wanted to be lean.   I consider myself to have pretty good will power, but after 10-12 weeks, I wanted to eat!

As I have run this longer, I believe it is changing my body in other ways.   I always ran very low blood sugar when I was tested fasted.   One physical I was 52 and the BOTTOM of the scale is 70.   

I recently had a physical and full bloodwork and for the FIRST TIME in my life, I tested mid range  for my fasted blood sugar.    I noticed that I no longer suffer from being "hangry" ever.   I can go until 5 or 6 pm sometimes and be totally fine.

I modify my IF and introduce large carb boluses on training days.   As much for the fact that I enjoy eating as I can use the extra carbs.    I eat pretty insane things at times going through 2-3 tubs of icecream a week.

The crazy thing, I am ALMOST moving beyond the statement of believing that the main thing is appetite control.   Some crazy changes in composition are STILL happening, even when not in any particular deficit.     The level of leanness is even getting freaky for me.     There is a guy who recently did a contest, and up until the last few weeks, he is not much leaner than me on a day to day basis.   He said if I did the water prep, I could probably step on stage.   


I am going to continue to eat like this and see what happens.   My training is not taking any particular direction at this point for me, so I am just screwing around.   I literally am 'having my cake and eating it too'.

I do supplement leucine and whey to assure I hit protein levels.   But I eat  so much at a single sitting it would be hard if you were eating out.   If I eat out to lunch, at times I will order two lunches.   Or I may drink a whey shake prior or after.    Getting 200g or pro gets hard in 2-3 meals.

Offline DrManhattan

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2019, 01:27:51 PM »
ID: Nice.
Do you do the 16/8 method?
You lost body fat, yes. how did your muscle react?

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2019, 04:08:24 PM »
I am not super strict.    Sometimes I am 16/8, other times, I am 18/6.  It is just however my day works.

I try to push out so I never eat before 2.   On non-workout days, I may sometimes stretch to 3 or 4.   Workout days I need to eat by 230-300 at latest so I can workout at 5-530.

I am at the point where I dont grow anymore for quite a while.  For the past 6 years, I have probably averaged 1 1/2lbs per year.   It is about impossible to track.   I also dont train for strength anymore so  I cant track that.    I have however taken long periods off lifting heavy and then will come back now and again to make sure I still have 'it'.    My strength never really goes away which is kinda weird. 

I have not pressed a dumbbell heavier than 40lbs in almost 2 years, and I have not benched over 135.  The other day my gym got 120's so I did a set of incline and pressed them 120x15 my first set with no issues.

I am not sure what your goals are, but if fat loss is one of them, I think IF is a great tool.   (if not just for appetite suppression and food and food prep not having to  dominate one's life).

For me, where I am approaching 10years of consistent training back in the gym and 17+total years, it means that I can live the most laid back I have ever.    What most people dont realize is their true progress is being held up by their lack of effort in their intake NOT their gym program.   Once you eat for your goals and do it consistently, doing anything other than that feels like a waste of time.  (and it really is because it is SO much less efficient than the results from combining targeted goal-based training along with targeted nutrition).   Most people, even people with YEARS in the gym have never taken their intake to this point and dont realize how huge a difference it really is.


I think IF give you the widest birth as far as flexibility goes for a number or reasons.   It is not the only way, but for me it is BY FAR the easiest for a number of reasons.

I am the least dedicated I have EVER and put the least effort into my training, yet this is aprox my year round condition now with ZERO cardio.





Offline DrManhattan

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2019, 04:34:15 PM »
Hoy cow. .you are an extra terrestrial fo sho.

My goal is to not be skinny (with my genes, don't think that's possible,  unless it was a catastrophic scenario)Fat loss definitelya goal.... My goal is to have big wheels, small waist, big arms, chest, ....bodybuild?

I'll be trying this 16/8 IF..honestly  I don't get hungry until after my noon workout,  which works out perfectly.
I was skeptical and for sure didn't want to lose any muscle. Dont know if true but fasting detoxes body?
How long would you say to try out before throwing in towel? I understand everyone is completely different.

Props on your pics...holy cow, if thats how you look on your off season???
I appreciate all your knowledge. its like having a freakin' personal trainer...

Bad ass pics.

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2019, 11:31:13 PM »
Dont forget, I have almost 10 years back training.   I have never been a lean individual.  It is only the last 4-5 years that I have found my way in that regard.

I am lucky to respond well to training, and building strength as size have never been an issue for me.   I went from 140 to 190lbs in 3 years from 18-21.   I still have giant zipper stretch marks all over.   I just blew up after finally hitting the weights.   I am lucky I guess,  that I am built to generate reasonable power with no real strong or weak points.   I am not really great at any one lift and not really bad either.  Some guys are freaks at one thing and have relatively weak lifts in comparison.   I am fairly well balanced.

Depending on your length of training, and current condition, there are several ways to approach your training.   It is also important to understand just what it is you want and how dedicated you are willing to be to get it.   There is nothing wrong with just training, and making aprox efforts on diet and letting time do it's thing.

In contrast, if you want the most efficient training possible with the fastest results, you have to start putting your nutrition as important or moreso than training.  (it certainly takes A LOT more work do eat right than just showing up to the gym 4 days a week).

The advice I would give is based a lot on the above...and again, there are no 'wrong' answers.   It has to work for your goals and how much effort you really want to put forward.

We all start somewhere.  I was out of the gym for a decade.  This is what I looked like.


Dropping weight was my first goal.


Then this is my first year back training after dropping weight.  I think I was 178 in left pic and 195 after a year of training.   This is only possible because I was the same basic size in my 20's so I only had to bring it back.  Much easier to come back than gain the first time around.



Consistency over time will yield results.  Most people's lack of results is because they dont manipulate their food.   If gaining mass and strength is your goal (assuming you still have progress you can make), and you stay the same weight more than 2 weeks in a row, you are NOT doing things in the most efficient manner.   FOOD, both deficit and surplus is the key to linear success. 

I spent almost 5 years eating up for 5 months and then dieting for 2 1/2-3.    In the course of gaining, I gained and lost HUNDREDS of lbs.  I would eat up 25-30 lbs, and the diet right back down.  Each time holding on to what I could.   

Anyway.. I dont eat up and down anymore, because there really is no gaining for me anymore.  I dont really want to use anabolics at a level that would be necessary for me to get bigger so I am happy where I am just being healthy.   I would never want to get any bigger than I could maintain on natural test levels.   I also dont think I could handle losing strength.

So I work on keeping good composition and just staying 'fit' these days.   I am fairly happy but I miss the days of really working hard in the gym.   Being able to reach new goals and compete with oneself is incredibly motivating.   I satisfy that with helping others achieve from time to time.

I dont know it all, but I have a pretty decent handle on things.    Remember, I was NEVER a lean person, but after years of heavy training, I finally decided to shed some fat and I was shocked that I didnt look all that bad underneath (even though I have never been a "bodybuilder".



Offline DrManhattan

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2019, 11:59:29 PM »
I agree, my diet isn't what it needs to be. just like the article you recommended said: ..."i see natural guys putting in decent work in the gym, but ruin it with their diet...so they might as well not even show up,  they're wasting their time..."

I have a decent foundation I could build on but yes, my eating sucks. Genetically I could use a bigger chest. Have decent arms and back from dad's side of the family.
What has my attention is my waist now...hence this post. Oh snap ..getting a little thick around the edges..

I shall continue to put in the work in tge gym,  but i know I know I know I need to get my act together in the kitchen.

Damn brother,  you have come a long way. Nothing was given to you, so much props for that. and others in here.

Dont like being lean, I just need to find the specific formula for myself. we're all different of course, and you seem to have found it, and i appreciate the input.

Here's a current pic (225 lbs)and we'll see where this IF takes me. Who knows, i might look even worse in a few weeks, we'll see. Ideally I'd like to look like your last pic..
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 12:01:04 AM by DrManhattan »

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2019, 10:57:46 AM »
I have not pressed a dumbbell heavier than 40lbs in almost 2 years, and I have not benched over 135.

What exactly are you doing then that you have not lost size or strength? What workout(s) are you doing that allow you to use such light weights and still achieve this kind of success?

Eric


Squat - 255 :(
DL - 375
OHP - 130
Bench - 275

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2019, 04:07:35 PM »


What exactly are you doing then that you have not lost size or strength? What workout(s) are you doing that allow you to use such light weights and still achieve this kind of success?

 I read a study article somewhere about how little stimulation it takes to prevent atrophy and retain muscle mass.   I wish I could find it, but it was an amazingly small volume.   I think the mass is the easiest part and takes very little.    I also have seen people carry different types of mass.   I think there is pump type mass which is the result of adaptation to a lot of fatigue type training (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy).    I have seen people who "blow up" and then can shrink down in a few months.   I am not built like that.   I think my mass is a result of the training methods I used over the years with almost no fatigue based training.  Always trying to move more and more weight (tension).


The strength part is one I am not as sure on and even surprises me.  I think the answer has several parts: 

1)  I am lucky.   I might not have been born with the aesthetics of Frank Zane, but I was blessed with a great training response and ability to gain strength.     For many years I did not realize it was not like this for everyone.  Hanging around the forums enough, I soon learned this.    To illustrate is pretty clearly, I took 10 years off the gym.   My first workout back, I could still bench 300lbs.  My first time squatting, I put on 405 just to see what it felt like, and it took me only 11 workouts to get back up to a 500lb deadlift.    So as I have gotten older and more experienced, I always make sure I mention that although the principles are all the same, the response level of each of us lies in different spots on the curve.   I have developed an appreciation for the advantages that I was given.

2) Varying stimulus (this is all bro-science...beware)

   a) MMC.  Mind muscle connection. I get into a zen-like state during certain sets and I focus on certain muscles working on the movement.   I still do compound movements, but I will take a bench press and use only 135, but in the movement, I try to lift with only my chest.   I mentally feel like I am pressing the weight as if I were doing dumbbell flys.   I try to take my triceps totally out of it.   I do the same thing on leg and presses.   I can make various muscle groups fire hard and relax others, focusing on hitting what I want.

   b) TUT  Time under tension.   I do some VERY long sets.   As an example.   I do straight bar curls with only 40-50lbs.   But when I am over in the area working my arms, I will see a guy do two full sets and take a break go over and get a drink, and I am just finishing a single set.   I accelerate my concentric and do very slow eccentric movements.
        1)  I also will do pause training and partial ROM.




I dont take any high doses of anabolics and I have never been able to see a strength increase (or corresponding decrease after cession).   I have come to the conclusion that I guess I dont use enough ;).    I know all these people out there cant be lying about how much stronger they get.  But I have never seen it.  I actually in some ways want to experience that, but I am very conservative of what I am willing to do and not so I will just wonder...    I guess the good part folds into maintaining strength on the flip side.   I have never seen my strength slip backwards as the result of stopping anything.   Mentally I think I prefer that.


Clifs:   I dont think it takes much to maintain size.   The strength aspect I think is just a blessing.

     



Offline DrManhattan

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2019, 06:43:33 PM »
Then you, good sir, are an anomaly...

..."the response level of each of us lies in different spots on the curve "...
I'm still looking for this elusive and mystical curve.

Seriously though,  when I take time off, it doesn't take me long to (30 to 60 days) to get back to where i was.  .  BUT, that's it. I don't go much farther than that. I just get back to point X,

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2019, 10:09:31 AM »
That all makes a lot of sense. You do seem like an anomaly when it comes to getting size or cutting. Although I am quite sure a lot of it comes from years of researching and testing.

I have been out of the gym most of the last 2 years and just getting back last week. The first week back was really tough but this week I am noticing that I can hit most of my old numbers (weight/reps) and even added a couple reps. I just need to learn to stick with it.
Eric


Squat - 255 :(
DL - 375
OHP - 130
Bench - 275

Offline Merkley

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Re: Intermittent Fasting..
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2019, 03:08:14 PM »
Then you, good sir, are an anomaly...

..."the response level of each of us lies in different spots on the curve "...
I'm still looking for this elusive and mystical curve.

Seriously though,  when I take time off, it doesn't take me long to (30 to 60 days) to get back to where i was.  .  BUT, that's it. I don't go much farther than that. I just get back to point X,

 I resonate with this. Of course I may have never given myself the true opportunity of meeting my fullest potential, let it be strength, hypertrophy, physique goals, due to the lack of consistency (this ranges from nutrition, program changing, also being consistent in in the gym longer than 6-7 months at a time). After any type of hiatus I tend to respond quickly in returning to previous bests in size and strength but nothing beyond.

 Of course there is a small percentile that I may have hit my genetic limitations early on in life....very small percentile.

 As for the topic title. I've used intermittent fasting quite a bit over the years and found it to be a useful tool when cutting. I will base most of my calories pre and post workout this gives me the energy I need to train hard throughout my workout and find a decent level of satiety from my meals (especially when calories get very low). A secondary plus (which is the primary reason I use intermittent fasting as well as fasting) is it's easier on your digestive system. Giving it a break is a good thing, especially when dealing with bacterial overgrowth, IBS, etc. I personally deal with IBS and intermittent fasting/fasting has had benefits (amongst other dietary changes).

 
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